Abubakar Alhaji Alhaji is one of the royal family members of the Sokoto Caliphate. He was a finance minister during the regime of General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida (retd) and later served as Nigeria’s high commissioner in the United Kingdom, where he had spent a lot of his time as a student. He stayed in the palace of Queen Elizabeth. In this interview he spoke on his experiences, as well as a number of issues affecting the country.
By Kabiru A. Yusuf
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You have this rare name: Abubakar Alhaji Alhaji. The Lagos media called you Triple A. Can you explain how you got two Alhajis as your surname?
My father’s name is Alhaji Dogon Daji. He was the son of the district head of Dogon Daji and he was Alhaji Alhaji Dogon Daji. That was how I took Alhaji and the triple A. The Queen could not call me Alhaji Abubakar Alhaji, so she nicknamed me Triple A; and everybody started to call me that.
What was your interaction with the queen?
No comment.
You had primary education at Dogon Daji and went to Kano for secondary school, and later, Katsina. In those days it was rare for somebody from one province to go to another; why Kano?
After my elementary school at Dogon Daji, where my grandfather was district head, I came to Sokoto and entered Nagarta College. Then the man who was minister of education, Isa Kaita, wanted to make Katsina College the senior in northern Nigeria instead of Nagarta College; that was why we went to Kano for one year when Kaduna College was being renovated and rebuilt.
The idea was to go to Katsina College eventually, but you stopped in Kano because it was under renovation. What was your experience in Katsina College, the premier secondary school in northern Nigeria? Who were your mates and other colleagues in the school?
In Katsina College I was always either number one or two in all examinations. At that time, the Sardauna, the late Ahmadu Bello, sent people from various provinces within the North to England. There was an examination as usual and I came first, so I was chosen from Katsina College to go to the United Kingdom.
We were in Bournemouth, Hampshire; and from Bournemouth I went to the Reading University and I graduated in 1964. There was another examination by an American, called Mr Succkdean, and again, I came first, so I got an American scholarship.
So from England, once you finished your first degree you went straight to the US for a second degree?
It was not a second degree. It was a tour of American universities. We went to all the universities in America.
Were you in Reading between 1960 and 1964?
In 1964, after my first degree in Reading I started working in Lagos.
Tell us about your experience in the UK before you come to Lagos. From Sokoto, a very hot climate and very traditional family you found yourself in the UK; how did you cope as a student?
It was terrible. I went to Bournemouth where schoolboys were calling me a monkey. They used to line the street when I was riding bicycle to school. I was the first black man to go to Bournemouth.
Was it a secondary school?
It is a college.
It must have been very unpleasant being there; how did you cope?
The only thing was that every month we had to go to London to collect our cheques because at that time Nigeria did not have self-government; it was a colony.
When you were in Reading, was the atmosphere for learning better for you to blend with other students?
Before I went to Reading, I was billed to go to Oxford for two reasons: I was a believing boy, secondly, the chancellor of the University of Reading, Sir Keith Joseph, was from Oxford. He later became the secretary of British universities.
Reading was founded on River Thames, about 25 miles from Oxford. I wanted to learn why the university is not next to Oxford and they said the viceroy of Britain, the son of Queen Victoria, had sent his children to Oxford but they told him they were. At that time there was no airplane, so they had to go by sea. And to get to Oxford you had to go from India to Cape Town to West Africa, then Britain. So they were late and he was very angry and built his own university. He took all his colleagues from Oxford to Reading.
Were you happy studying in Reading? Was it a nice atmosphere? As you said, you finished in 1964 when it was rare for a well educated northern person like you to go to the federal service; how come you didn’t go to the northern service in Kaduna; rather, you went to Lagos?
Very interesting. Four of us came out of the college at that time: Mamman Daura, Mahmud Tukur, Prof Tukur and Shehu Ibrahim and Ogasa Yenge from Benue.
My father, the Santurakin Sokoto, called Ali Akilu, who was the secretary to the government and said Abubakar should go to Lagos to meet ’yan uwansa because he didn’t want me to remain in the North. I was the only one who went to Lagos.
Were you happy to go, or you were forced?
I took a train the first time I went to Lagos.
Did you take the train from Kaduna?
No, my father was in the Northern Nigerian Government. I served with him, but he was the chief livestock superintendent.
In Kaduna or Sokoto?
In the North, he was based in Kaduna, and when he became a chief livestock superintendent, the premier said he didn’t want him in Kaduna; so he went to Kano.
How was Lagos then for a young northern civil servant?
Terrible. I was under a Yoruba boss, but fortunately for me, the then permanent secretary in the Ministry of Finance where I was posted had a deputy who was a European. His name was Mr Cody.
So when I was posted to the Ministry of Finance, Mr Cody received me and said I was looking for a personal assistant and got one. I was working directly under Mr Cody, who was the deputy permanent secretary under Mr Edward Ogunbowo, the permanent secretary.
As a young prince from the North in Lagos, did you enjoy yourself outside the working situation?
I was lucky; Shehu Shagari was the minister of internal affairs and I was staying in his house. When the premier visited Lagos, I met Ribadu, who was the minister of defence and he said, “My pikin do you have a house?” I said I was still in Shagari’s boys’ quarters and he said, “See me in the office tomorrow.”
The following day I went to his office and he told his soldiers to take a female police officer out of the house. He asked me to move in.
Were you married or you were still a young bachelor?
I was a bachelor.
Did you blend or you found it strange to be in Lagos? I mean the social life around you?
I was a bachelor for two years. My mother was putting pressure on my father for me to get married. She didn’t want me to go to Lagos in the first place. So I came back and got married.
With that I became the Sultan of Sokoto.
You had a very glittering career in the federal civil service. You were a permanent secretary in trade, finance, and later, minister in planning and finance. Did that make up for all the early struggles you had?
Every year, I acted in one position or another. Then I became an undersecretary. The rumours were too much for the permanent secretary who was coming and he asked me to go to trade, even for one year. I went back to finance. In 1977 I was the executive secretary of the Festival of Arts and Culture (FESTAC) for one year, then went back to finance. Mr Cody had retired and I was the deputy permanent secretary.
Mr Lawson, a young gentleman, was the permanent secretary in the Ministry of Transport. There was a rumour on why Alhaji Alhaji was always in the Ministry of Finance. That was why I was posted to FESTAC to become an accountant. By the time FESTAC was over, Shehu Shagari was the minister of finance and he said he wanted me back to the ministry.
You became a minister of finance under General Ibrahim Babangida; as a civil servant, how did you become a minister?
Babangida got a professor to give him a report on civil service. The professor wrote a report saying a permanent secretary could be a director-general. And because I was about becoming a permanent secretary I went to Babangida and said I would not be a director-general because I had so many directors-general under me. So, about one week he called me and said he wanted to appoint me as minister of state and economic adviser. I was minister of state for budget and planning and economic adviser to the president.
Later you became a minister of finance?
I took over from Olu Falae, who transferred N2 million to the Nigerian High Commissioner because he wanted to become president. Babangida got to know of this transfer.
Where was the N2m transferred to?
To the High Commission in London. Babangida got to hear of it and sacked him as minister of finance and appointed me.
Some of the structural adjustment programmes started under you as minister of finance. The Nigerian elite are sort of critical of our relationship with the International Monetary Fund (IMF). They say we maybe have become subjugated by the IMF under this period; what do you say to that?
During my period as permanent secretary, I went back to America and was in the IMF institute.
Were you trained by the IMF?
Yes, for one year. I met civil servants from all over the world; then I went to The Hague in Netherlands and it was the same thing.
The head of the institute in The Hague was Mr Kinshi, who later became minister. He said Nigerians should put their house in order before they would lend them money, but Nigerians did not know this.
I was under pressure because the Europeans trained me—both in Washington and in the Netherlands—to adjust the economy of Nigeria structurally, but Nigerians did not know.
But some people said the economy didn’t need your adjustment, especially with oil money; why borrowing?
It was later on that oil money started—during Gowon’s time. He was the only one who had more money than he needed.
So as minister of finance, with all that money, why did we have to go to the IMF because the oil money continued to flow?
In fact, I lent money to the IMF as minister of finance. I went to Washington, signed a loan agreement and I gave the IMF money.
But later, we started borrowing from them. Will you still defend the policy of structural adjustment? Do you still think it was the right thing to do, or was it a mistake?
The World Bank is a subsidiary. They didn’t want me to say that, but the IMF must first take it to the World Bank before they lend money to any country. People didn’t want me to say this and I could not say it openly, but I came to borrow money from the World Bank without the go-ahead from the IMF.
So you had to deal with the IMF.
I had to deal with the IMF.
You capped your public career as an ambassador or high commissioner to the UK. That must have been a very pleasant appointment from your days as a poor student in London; how did that go?
I was appointed a high commissioner to the UK at 3pm.
So you were still in office as minister of finance when the appointment came?
Yes. Babangida said Alhaji was translating from the Ministry of Finance to the High Commission, but I knew he was getting rid of me.
So you were sidelined and sent abroad. Were you unhappy or you enjoyed your assignment?
I took it in the stride.
You had a sort of interesting relationship with Babangida, having several appointments as you said, but when the time came to push you aside he did it; do you still have a grudge that he didn’t allow you to complete your tenure as minister?
To be honest, I didn’t like it. My brother, Aliyu Dasuki, was in hospital in Germany, so I stayed there for two months and people were bringing files from the High Commission to me.
Babangida got to know this but I said I wanted to look after my brother first. He knew I was not telling him the truth, but he, General Abacha and my brother were very close.
So he let you be? But how long did you serve as a high commissioner?
I was there for six years. And when Abacha took over, he didn’t want me to leave. I called and said he should sack me, but it was Obasanjo that took the phone. I asked what he was doing in Abacha’s office and he said, “You stupid boy, why are you asking me this question?”
Did you leave the job under Abacha?
Abacha fell out with my wife’s father, Ibrahim Dasuki and sent him to Jalingo. My wife is Dasuki’s first daughter. I came home one day and my wife said I could not live in Abacha’s house.
So your wife made the decision. When you came home you eventually became the Sardauna of Sokoto, a position nobody has occupied for almost 50 years. That also set you in line for the sultanship; how did you get there?
The first person to bring me back to Nigeria was Governor Attahiru Bafarawa. He said he wanted me to become economic adviser to Sokoto, Kebbi and Zamfara states. That was how he got me out of London. So I was the economic adviser to the three states. But after a year, I found out that I could not work with him, so I quit.
How was the experience? Did you find out that the governors didn’t want advice?
Yes or no. I was very busy because I knew Sokoto better. Bafarawa was touring all over the place and I went to every district in Sokoto.
So you couldn’t handle the other states effectively. How did you become the Sardauna?
My uncle, Sultan Dasuki.
I thought he made you Sarkin Shanu?
Dasuki is the third child of the district head of Dogon Daji. My father was the first child, and Sarkin Dogon Daji, who was a teacher, then Dasuki. When Dasuki became sultan he appointed me as Sardauna.
Did you see the appointment as preparing you to be a sultan later?
The people, the royal family, have many wives. We have the house of Bello, house of Atiku, house of Buhari. We come from the house of Buhari, and other houses didn’t like it at all when I became Sardauna. But they knew I don’t want a penny from the province.
Probably they were worried about your ambition to be a sultan, was the rivalry about money?
I have no ambition to make money. I was glad to become the Sardauna of Sokoto, but other members of the family, the houses of Atiku and Bello thought it was a strategy by Dasuki to make me an heir to the throne.
Was it a strategy?
You should go and ask Dasuki; unfortunately, he is dead.
Eventually, the sultanate became open after Sultan Maccido died and a much younger man than you was able to become the Sultan, was it disappointing for you?
Sultan Maccido took over from my uncle, Ibrahim Dasuki. Before he became Sultan he used to come to my office in Lagos. I didn’t know that he had a grudge against me.
You are the Sardauna of Sokoto but you are not really active in the palace, why?
It is because there is someone else in the house of Bello, so I prefer to keep my distance. I know that if I go to the palace very often, the Sultan and his relatives will not like it. But if somebody from the family dies, I go and pay condolence and that is all.
You have a relationship with the English royal family. I think you are one Nigerian I know, especially from the North, who is a knight of the British Empire; how did you achieve that honour?
I was the first knight to be appointed in the palace of the queen.
So you are the only knight we have?
Yes.
You had a high level career in Lagos and London, and now, you are in small Sokoto, how do you spend your day?
I spend my day reading the holy Quran.
I understand you used to go to a forest nearby to walk, do you still do that? Do you still do any physical activity?
Yes, but my back is now giving me problems. I am also waiting for this pandemic, Coronavirus to be over so that I will resume my treatment. But at the moment, my last son, who is a citizen of the European Economic Community, an architect, sends me medicine until this virus is over. He has acquired the citizenship of Britain.
When you were in Katsina College you were senior to President Muhammadu Buhari and many others. Do you still have a relationship with him? As a student, how did you relate with him?
It is not only President Buhari, there were three people from my compound who became president, including Umaru Yar’adua.
Were you in the same class with Buhari?
No, Buhari was my junior by far. I told you that I was in form six while he was in form one.
Do you still maintain a relationship with him?
Oh yes, I telephone him when he comes to Sokoto on a journey.
What is your take on the current situation in Nigeria, especially as a former finance minister? I don’t know whether you hear what people are saying about the country—insecurity, economy.
The spate of insecurity is terrible and Buhari himself admitted it. I don’t want to make comments to anybody, including you. But I know the solution.
Would you like to comment on the economy because you are one of the architects of the Nigerian economy?
This question is related to others. You know, if the white man likes you, you are in business, if he doesn’t like you, you are out. Fortunately for me, they didn’t like me. I studied in America, Netherlands and Paris.
Do you think the international finance system might not get you along with them?
A friend of theirs was still sending me cards every year.
What do you think you would be remembered for?
I served Nigeria with all my heart.
