Dr Umar Ardo was the governorship candidate of the Social Democratic Party (SDP) in the just concluded Adamawa governorship election. In an interview on Trust TV’s Daily Politics, he spoke about his dissatisfaction of the entire process and its conduct. Excerpts:
The election has come and gone specifically that of Adamawa; why are you dissatisfied with the outcome despite coming third?
Adamawa: Fintiri receives certificate of return for second term
Well, the aim of a contest is actually not necessarily to win but to participate but when you are participating, you should participate on the basis of a level playing ground, on a free and a fair election. The election in Adamawa was neither free nor was it fair.
Now, a free election is an election where the electorate vote their conscience without inducement, without cajoling, without any form of intimidation and so on; it didn’t happen like that in Adamawa state.
The election basically took two major formats; in the cities, well when I say city I mean the state capital and then the local governments, Yola North, Yola South, Mubi. In these areas, the election was basically a market square.
How do you mean a market square?
It was vote buying, they were buying votes like no man’s business.
You mean openly?
Openly, everybody would be coming, you know in fact it is not just the vote buyers, surprisingly and sadly too, the voters themselves they waited to see who would come and pay and how much will he pay.
The highest bidder?
Mostly like that, that was what happened in the cities. So by its nature, it wasn’t free, because given the endemic poverty that the PDP and APC governments over the years have reduced the people of the country and in fact taking us beyond level of poverty to the level of destitution, people kill for N10 so to speak.
So they were offered N2, 000, N3, 000, N5, 000 or a wrapper or a bag of rice, that is 5kg bag of rice or 10kg bag of rice which the APC and the PDP candidates had in trailers.
Are you alleging or…
I know for a fact, so people easily sell their votes therefore they sell their conscience. So they are not voting freely and they did not vote freely.
And in the villages, the vote buying was there but it is not as high as those in the local government headquarters but here it is intimidation. The PDP with his own police and thugs…
Because the governor is PDP?
Because the governor is PDP, controlling the state machinery, he has his own thugs and I have been in PDP, I know the violent nature of Adamawa politics within the PDP, I have experienced it three times. My house was attacked, destroyed at one point, so there they coaxed the people, garrison the area and then do what they wanted to do.
Those of us who don’t have the thugs, who are not even aligned to going this way…
Are you saying you don’t have thugs, what about inducement, money to induce the voters?
By the time I finished paying my agents, all I had left was less N17m.
Payment of agents is legal?
Yes, all I had left was less than N17million and it is at that time that the APC and the PDP candidates were coming out with billions.
Billions or millions?
Billions. Throughout this election I have been to each and every local government in Adamawa State, I have been to so many wards in Adamawa state, I have seen virtually each and every stakeholder, every sector in the society and met with them.
Did you give them money when you visited them?
There is a tradition, when you visit people, you give them gifts, what I do is to give cloth or perfumes.
They are souvenirs?
Yes, or perfume or wrist watch and then my book that I published on Court and Politics.
But is that not inducement in your estimation?
No, this is conventional, this is traditional and when I go I meet with the traditional rulers, I met with each and every traditional ruler but one in Adamawa state and that one, at two times I wanted to meet him, that is HRH the Moronbula. Two times I wanted to meet him but two times he was not in and then two times he gave me appointment and two times I was not able to make it, these things happen.
Other than him, I met with each and every traditional ruler in the state, I met with virtually all the religious leaders in the state, I met with virtually all the associations, I mean farmers association, women groups, youth groups, every stakeholders.
I went to the villages and I met with the women, I met with the children, I saw the endemic poverty in Adamawa State and we sat down with them and we discussed with them, together we formulated our solutions to these problems and then I extracted from them commitment of support.
Only on election day that the PDP and the APC came up with their own tactics of vote buying, inducement and then aggression, so this is what happened in Adamawa and this is how the election took place in Adamawa.
Therefore I am not surprised that we ended up having PDP and APC fighting each other, you know cutting the throats of each other.
Now, what happened on that day, that is the first day of election before the supplementary?
My state collation officer had a virtual interview with you and he told you exactly you know the position of the SDP in the election in Adamawa State, it was as he described it “a naked dance of shame in the market place”, that was what happened; these two things of inducement, vote buying and then aggression.
I am finding it difficult to pin down some of these allegations to specific personalities. For instance after the main election, that is the first leg, it was the governor who was crying foul, now just yesterday (after supplementary election), it was Binani who was crying foul. Today INEC was responding to Binani saying her claim that INEC officials were compromised during the second segment of the election is unfounded. Where do you belong? You have not been saying anything let me use this word.
A: You see, in the 72hours before INEC finally took the decision to resume collation, what transpired within these 72 hours. Three key things happened.
One, is the issue of electoral fraud. Two, is the issue of bribery and three, is the issue of electoral violence.
Now, the electoral fraud and bribery is alleged to have been committed by the APC candidate in collusion with some INEC officials in the state. And the bribery and electoral violence is alleged, this one there is even evidence to have been committed by the PDP candidate in the state, in collusion with some maybe INEC officers or the state security operatives.
Okay, let’s start with the APC. You said Binani and some INEC officials; does she have any connection with INEC? She is just a senator, right?
Now, the three key issues of electoral fraud, of bribery, of violence, you have seen all these three.
The electoral fraud is the coming of the REC to usurp the duties and the responsibilities of the returning officer Prof. Mele and then without concluding the collation, he now declared her as governor elect.
So you think he was induced? Because Binani issued a statement that…
Wait a minute, let’s analyze it. Less than three minutes after his declaration that Binani won the election, Binani was holding an acceptance speech and NTA was there. So what it tells you is this, that it is not a coincidence that there is a collusion between the INEC officials, allegedly, well, at least you can deduce, INEC officials, the candidate herself and then the NTA because you cannot hold these things, all these things cannot happen in less than 10 or 15 minutes.
There are other reporters from various media houses, is that correct?
But why I am saying NTA is because, you see, first I told you the election was not free, and I explained what I meant. Now the election was also not fair, it was not fair in the sense that, first and foremost the APC candidate (Binani), we saw the President, you know Buhari made a national broadcast in Hausa asking the people of Adamawa to go and vote for Binani and that he had worked with Binani in PTF (defunct Petroleum Trust Fund) and Binani was good and this and that, I have no problem with that.
Yes because it is within his right, is that correct?
Yea, I have no problem with that but the fallout of that presidential broadcast is what I had problem with because from the moment the president made that broadcast, the entire agencies, federal agencies in Adamawa State tilted towards her.
You are talking about police, INEC, DSS?
I am talking about the military, I am talking about the police, I am talking about INEC, I am talking about DSS, I am talking about Nigerian Broadcasting Commission.
But this is an allegation, right?
They tilted because I was there, I have reasons. For example, she just made one phone call that in this house they are thumb printing results and this and that and that I think turned out to be the situation room of the PDP candidate and within a few minutes after her call, the military was there, the police was there, everybody was there and they went and found out that.
How did you get the information?
It was from the media, it was there, I can send you the video clips.
And they raided the place?
They raided the place.
Following her directives?
Following her directives, you know, just a simple call. I will call a thousand times and I will not get the attention of anybody.
So you are saying indirectly she got undue advantage?
Of course that is one. Two, you know, I know for a fact she met with INEC officers in Adamawa State, you know with regards… about four different meetings. We held a press conference, I held a press conference, three days to the election and I brought these issues. I called for intervention, nobody listened to me, nobody even acted.
Then three, almost seven months after her emergence as the candidate of APC, INEC gave her a contract.
Gave Binani a contract?
To her company Binani Printing, a contract of about four hundred and thirty something million naira to print what? to print governorship result sheets.
But not for Adamawa State?
Yea, not for Adamawa, it is for the other states but what it means is that, she has access to INEC sensitive materials and she has access to the workings of INEC in that and she was also given financial advantage by that contract over and above other candidates.
Have you raised alarm? Have you spoken to like INEC chairman or any other officials?
I have raised alarm, I have spoken with INEC leadership and what the INEC leadership was just simply saying is what you just said, that Adamawa is not included (in the contract given to Binani).
Okay Adamawa state was not included and later INEC came out you know with press release, saying that they went to CAC and they checked and then found out that her name was not in this thing. But I know it is her company, when she opened that company, it was on the news you know and it was opened in her own name, then go and check the account of this company, if this account of this company is not signed by her, let them go and check. The truth is this, this (contract) has given her financial advantage but even if it did not, what it means is that, INEC has already tilted you know towards giving her advantage.
But how is it that you didn’t apply to get contract, you are also a Nigerian, you can feel free and apply?
Well, it is not about me, it is about what happened. Whether I applied or not, it doesn’t matter, I am not into contracts, I have never done any contract but this is what happened. So the issue of fairness is just not there.
And also when the REC Hudu Ari did this declaration, the police commissioner was there, the director of SSS was there, and the commandant of the civil defence was there.
That is the highest security apparatus in the state?
Of the federal government and the previous night at one o clock, my state collation officer was there, they agreed that we are going to reconvene by 11 o clock the next day. They said let us go back, our Muslim brothers who wanted to go and do sahur (meal at down ahead of commencement of fasting) and get ready for tomorrow and so on, so they now disperse to reconvene by 11 am.
But by 9 o clock, two hours to the scheduled time that they reconvened. Now, didn’t the police asked questions? That they didn’t see the electoral officer, he didn’t see the agents of political parties you know and that the collation itself was not complete the previous day, so didn’t they know that? Didn’t they know that there is a fraud being committed?
Is this Binani alone doing this or you think it is beyond her?
I am not saying it is Binani but you know it is in her favour. Maybe they did it without consulting her, I doubt it but I am not saying it is her.
Now this is it, then the issue of violence. The issue of violence also brought about the issue of bribery because we saw the deputy director operation for the DSS who was manhandled, who was dealt with and who now said that there was a N2 billion bribe that was given to somebody.
That is where we have serious issue up till now that who were the people interrogating that deputy director of DSS because have you seen some pointers that most likely those interrogating him you know are aligned to a certain camp?
Obviously from the proceedings of the interrogation, you can deduce that it is the governor’s thugs.
So we are now talking about the PDP side on the whole matter?
Now it is about PDP side, it is the governor’s thugs and I know for a fact that the chief detail of the governor was leading it (assault on SSS official). I know for a fact and as we speak now, the chief detail is in detention.
And also the director general of the PDP campaign was there and was discussing with Prof. Zuru, the national commissioner who was molested, beaten in blood, stripped and so on.
Some said Prof Zuru was mistaken for REC Hudu…
It really does not matter but if you see the interrogation that took place when the director general of the PDP campaign was doing it, clearly they knew that it was not him, that this is not him so the thugs were insisting that he is a national commissioner, he should still tell them where Hudu is hiding because he is an accomplice to this. So there was no remorse on their part.
Now these two violent episodes that happened, clearly, it was done by the PDP side.
Now, you have indicted both PDP and APC. I remembered you issued a statement in Yola calling for cancellation of the election, is that correct?
I issued a statement calling on INEC, that INEC should not conclude the collation important as it seems to be because there is a crime involved in this.
Was that why you called for that, beyond stoppage of collation, you also said that Binani and Finitri should be disqualified?
Yes.
Why did you make that call?
Because they were involved in these; you know three criminal episodes: in the electoral fraud, in the bribery issue and in the violence, so when an issue of this nature is involved then you should halt any other thing, resolve this first but INEC failed to do so.
Why do you think INEC failed to do that?
I think maybe INEC was jittery that if it didn’t do something, that violence could erupt in the state and because the PDP people were threatening and they have demonstrated their threat by dealing with the INEC national commissioner and then dealing with the SSS officer, so they could make good of their threat. So maybe that made INEC to go and do what they had to do.
INEC is a national institution with all the protections, are you aware of that?
It may be afraid that a delay from their side may lead to violence and killings and so on in the state, that may be, I am only making a conjecture. But my position is that it is wrong for INEC not to have gotten the criminal aspect of this issue resolved first before concluding the civil aspect, which is the collation of results and announcement of candidates because if you are involved in these kind of things, you are not worthy to be a leader, you are not worthy to get certificate of leadership.
Some will say your call for the disqualification of the two leading contenders might be self serving?
Yes, people will say so but that we should evaluate the matter on the basis of the fact and of the logic of it.
People may say okay, because I came third I want them to disqualify them so that I will, in fact I can canvass this position myself but it is a natural thing, that you must take care of criminal issues before you go into other matters.
Now, what are you going to do, are you going to court to challenge the declaration of Finitri or you have surrendered?
Well, it is not an issue of surrendering. We are still evaluating the situation, we have gotten our evidences across the state and we are waiting for the report of the investigation instituted by the DSS, we hope they will give us the result of these their findings.
If the results of their findings have indicted both the APC and the PDP candidate and we get hold of that, I can assure you that I will use it to go to tribunal because such is enough for the tribunal to nullify or disqualify these two people.
Now, the votes you got to become the third holder in this election, are you satisfied that yes they are you legitimate votes or you think your votes were suppressed?
No, I have already told you, I got very insignificant votes but my votes were conscientious votes, votes that were given freely, you know people voted their conscience based on the belief of our manifesto, of our campaign programmes, of what we said we are going to do you know for the people, of our interaction with them; it is not based on inducement or based on harassment, cajoling or whatever.
And so if these ones are disqualified then all their votes, to use the Supreme Court phrase are wasted votes. The small votes that we have become the valid votes now and by that, it is enough to declare us winners certainly, you know. But let’s wait and see, I am still pushing to see if we will get those evidences.
Now, my concern is the trading of blames between PDP and APC and they have dragged INEC indirectly because just today as I said earlier, an INEC national commissioner was responding directly to Binani, who alleged that even the national commissioner himself that went to Yola to superintend the declaration of result, had visited the government house…
And that they were given money. In fact what I heard in Yola was that they went, they met and that N2 billion was promised and N1billion was given, you know….
Apart from the initial N2 billion allegedly given by Binani to….
I don’t know whether Binani was said to have given, I didn’t hear. There was N2billion that I heard I don’t know who gave the N2billion but there is N2billion. So that is why I am telling you that there is issue of bribery involved so they must… the security apparatus must investigate and come out with this, if not so, you know it will have far reaching negative effect to our electoral process now and in the future.
And just yesterday, journalist asked the Minister of Information, Alh. Lai Mohammed why the apparent silence at the Villa in respect to Adamawa and the reasons he gave was that President Buhari is a democrat and he doesn’t interfere with whatever INEC does; is this convincing, and is the minister right to have said this?
But what do you expect him to say? What do you even expect the Villa to say? Villa has a position, Villa wants Binani to win, apparently Binani did not win, apparently Binani went and involved herself in a lot of you know, untoward activities and to me it is even going to be an embarrassing situation for the Villa that has been pushing for her.
Are you saying that Villa was overwhelmed by the shenanigans that happened?
Maybe, I don’t want to think for the Villa but may be.
Now, back to pre election in Adamawa, I interviewed you here one time, you said if Binani wins her local government (Yola South), that she should be declared as the governor but she finally won the local government. Maybe you should give her the few votes you got now…
No, I was saying that under the belief of having a very free and fair election, it wasn’t as I explained to you earlier, it wasn’t. I saw where you know, Governor Finitri is saying that he did not contest against Binani, he contested against powerful forces in the country.
Was he right?
I don’t want to say whether he is right or whether he is wrong but I want you to look at it this way. It was not even him as a person that contested that election. It was not even Binani as a person that contested that election.
How do you mean?
It was the institution of the office of the government of Adamawa State and the institution of the PDP Governor’s Forum, the institution of the PDP National Assembly Forum and you know the financial backers of the PDP, all coalesce for him on the one hand. On the other hand, it was not Binani as a person, it was the institution of the Villa led by the president, the institution of the Federal Government of Nigeria, institution of the national assembly and the institution of the APC and their supporters on the other hand you know that went for this in support of Binani.
It is only people like me and the Social Democratic Party, yes, that contested in our own persons without you know any institution behind us, without any backers over or above our heads, without any financial support from any quarters whatsoever and even on the contrary being suppressed by those federal institutions to ensure that we do not function. But even at that, we contested this election to the end, went through the entire gamut to the end and got whatever votes we got and came out of it with our head high because we have fought and concluded a war with the entirety of these two powerful forces.
How PDP on one side coalesce into a force and APC on the other side. It appears you still have cold feet towards President Buhari who you know, he is your man, you have been one of those instrumental to even him joining politics and all that, why?
I really don’t have cold feet towards the president, no and I didn’t participate in his joining politics but I have said it I am instrumental to the formation of the APC and his fourth contest that led to his victory.
All the other three (previous contests) maybe you didn’t participate fully?
I wasn’t involved in his first attempt and defeat, in his second attempt and defeat and in his third attempt and defeat, I wasn’t involved in these.
Yeah, I’m aware of that.
But immediately you know if you remember on the 13th of April 2011 when he was closing his presidential campaign under the CPC, when he broke down and cried, he said that if he lost that election in 2011 it would be his last, his third and final time, he will not contest again.
Yeah this is on record
Yes it’s on record but he contested again in 2015.
Why?
The answer is me.
You, Dr Ardo?
Yes, the answer is me. It was I you know out of patriotism because look, I’m from Adamawa State. Adamawa State is one of those states that was ravaged by insurgency from 2010, even 2011 up to the declaration of a state of emergency in 2012.
I know that very well being the bureau chief of our newspaper at the time.
Thank you, and I felt that he ought not to be in that situation and because first you know President Buhari was a governor of northeastern states, so he would obviously have a very good insight in the northeastern state societies. Two, he was head of state and during this period you know, he was a no nonsense leader, war against discipline and fight against corruption and so on then. So we were endeared towards such kind of leadership and besides you know my national hero among Nigeria’s leaders is Late Gen. Murtala Mohammed and you know Buhari was a member of the Murtala Mohammed regime.
He was, as a governor, a member of the federal executive council of the Murtala-Obasanjo regime when Obasanjo took over power.
But what gave you the confidence to support him ahead of 2015?
He was also a GOC you know in that area and he was reputed, very critical, he was reputed to have chased Chadian rebels out of Nigeria and back to Chad. And so, he was in politics, he contested three times and three times he was coming second with the large vote of about 12million.
And that’s why I’m asking what gave you hope that when he promised that he would not go for another contest…do you have the magic wand that time that okay, if something is done that he will make it?
I believe that if I presented to him a strategy that is convincing he will accept.
Okay what strategy?
Now, I said sir, you’ve contested three times and you lost and you said that you always get about 12million votes, you are being defeated by about 15million votes. Now, the reason why you’ve always lost is because you have never won any zone in the South. If you can win any zone in the South, you will have the majority votes and then you will have the required spreads. The South South will not go for you because they won’t leave Jonathan and go to you. The South East will not go for you, ideologically you are at par and also you have taken you know their sons two times you did not get it. But the South West can go for you. Yes, that the South West can go for you because we have cultural affinity and identity. They have Obas and we have Emirs, we have Muslim and Christian they have Muslim and Christians but most importantly, they are organized with a political leader in the person of Sen. Bola Ahmed Tinubu.
You mean that you told him to go for an alliance with Tinubu?
Certainly, I said if you can get Tinubu to be your vice presidential candidate, that you do a merger between CPC and ACN to form ACPC – Action Congress for Progressive Change. If you can get Bola Tinubu to accept this merger and then you make him the vice presidential candidate, you know for that he will deliver the South West.
You mean you proposed to Buhari to make Tinubu his vice presidential candidate in 2015?
Of course.
Meaning that this issue of Muslim -Muslim ticket has been there for a very long time?
It will always win. Look, it doesn’t really matter. If you even do Christian-Christian, if you can win in the South and get one zone in the North, any zone in the North whether it is Christian-Christian you have won the election, whether it is Muslim- Muslim you won election.
The idea is to get you votes to win your region and then get one zone from the South.
But Jonathan was very powerful that time…
See, I said if you can do that, if you can get Tinubu, give him the vice presidency… and Tinubu’s declaration in Abeokuta the other time, you know when he said ‘it is my turn’, I know for a fact.
Was venting his anger?
Yeah.
Is it that Buhari had in 2015 assured him that he will give him the vice presidential slot?
Yeah, he said after I convinced him, so when I convinced him he said okay I’ll talk with Tinubu and I’ll get back to you. In the meantime, I was to go and write the blueprint for the formation of the ACPC, you know and about five weeks later, my phone rang, it was his PA, Abba Sarki and he said General (Buhari) wants to see you, that we should meet in Abuja.
And I flew and came to Abuja and we met and he told me that he met with Tinubu and Tinubu has agreed but has made some changes, you know because I was insisting that let this (merger) just be between CPC and ACN, don’t worry about ANPP because with or without ANPP, you have always won. Who are the ANPP guys? Ali Modu Sheriff, you have always won Borno with or without Ali Modu Sherif and Shekarau. You have always won Kano even when Shekarau was a sitting governor and a presidential candidate of the ANPP.
YerimaN Bakura, you have always won Zamafara even when Bakura was a sitting governor?; then Bafarawa, you have always won Sokoto even when Bafarawa was a sitting governor and a presidential candidate of DPP. So you don’t need to worry yourself about that, just if you can take the South West, you have won their election and the only person that can give you the South West is Tinubu and if you can take him as the new vice presidential candidate, he will succumb, he will agree. You know Buhari was a little bit hesitant because he was saying that look, we’ve tried to do this merger just a few weeks or so ago you know and it failed and Tinubu went into alliance with PDP in 2011 and he delivered South West to PDP. I said that alliance has collapsed; it has collapsed on the ground with the removal of Justice Salami as the president of the Court of Appeal. Now salami is considered in the Tinubu cycle as a progressive judge, why because of the six ACN governors, four were given to him by the tribunal, only two; Lagos and Ogun that were given to him by INEC.
So, Salami was seen as a progressive person and when we went to tribunal, because I led the entire tribunal and if you read my book “Court and Politics”, read chapter 7 of that Court and Politics, it has treated this aspect comprehensively. When we went to tribunal, Justice Salami now ordered forensic analysis of the ballot papers, it was 100% certain they would have annulled the 2011 presidential election. So what did the PDP do? PDP you know, we went to INEC, INEC brought in their forensic experts, PDP brought in their forensic expert, CPC brought in their forensic expert, I brought the forensic expert for the CPC and when they saw what will happened, the facts, they said look this thing is science, it doesn’t lie. So what to do? The only thing is to reverse that order and they tried Salami to reverse the order, Salami declined, so they promoted Salami to go to Supreme Court if you remember, Salami refused. Then within a short period of time, the case with Katsina Alu and Sokoto governorship and before you knew it, Salami was gone.
Now the removal of Salami as far as my analysis was concerned broke the alliance between Tinubu and the PDP. So, I explained that to General Buhari, that look this alliance is dead and this is the reason of it. So if you approach the man (Tinubu) he will accept and so he now went. After five weeks, I was called and then we met with him and he said to me, ‘Dr., I met the man and he has accepted and so we go ahead.’ And he was able to win (in 2015) but because we don’t have time, fast forward, you can see it was a rough drive for Tinubu to get to the presidency.
Why do you think so?
Well, it’s a rough track for me too to be out of the regime so it’s not for me, so that is another matter you know all together. But one thing I am confident in is that I believe that Tinubu will do well, I believe so strongly and for that, he should avoid certain things, certain missteps of his predecessor.
Are referring to Buhari?
Yes. One, he should inaugurate the National Assembly by himself. One of the basic problems that Buhari faced was the National Assembly in 2015 and the major reason why he had this problem was he just wrote his inaugural speech and sent it to them and did not physically go there and inaugurate it.
Does it make any difference?
There’s a whole lot of difference, a whole lot of difference you know and I can explain to you maybe some other time.
Then two, you know in his appointment of his ministers and advisers and public servants, he should put in square pegs into square holes; people of capacity, people of knowledge, people of integrity and people of patriotism. Then he should, you know I’ve written something that one of these days I will release.
But Tinubu can only do these things if he escapes the turbulence ahead.
Where is the turbulence?
PDP is in court, Labour Party is in court, all trying to upturn Tinubu’s election. Is that not a problem?
Yeah, you see, you know, I don’t know what will be the outcome of that but legal luminaries have spoken and they have spoken on the basis of the weak grounds advanced by both candidates in the tribunal.
I don’t know whether the tribunal… but I do not foresee where the tribunal would upturn apple cut and say that APC did not win because from the analysis that I did, I knew that APC was going to win that election fair and square, I knew it ab initio, I have written about it.
So the outcries by PDP and LP will not fly?
All the outcries are just hot water, hot air.
But INEC which conducted these elections is more or less at the receiving end now; why do you think so, is it that because Professor Yakubu is not talking, is it that the recruitment process in INEC was faulty, or where is the problem?
No, you see I have confidence in INEC chairman’s knowledge, intellect and hard work, I do have confidence in that. I know that he has done his best. You see, there is no election in Nigeria since independence that has not been contested.
So, this one cannot be an exception?
You know Yakubu as a historian, he knows that so he shouldn’t worry himself.
Some people said he’s already depressed because of the outpouring of criticisms against him. What do you have to say on this?
He is not depressed, he is overwhelmed you know by these things but he is not depressed, I can assure you on that, he’s not.
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