Aminu Bello Masari is the Governor of Katsina State. He was the Speaker of the House of Representatives during the struggle for a third term by former President Olusegun Obasanjo. In this exclusive interview, he speaks about his political life, the controversial third term, banditry, among other issues. Excerpts.
By Kabiru A. Yusuf
Where and how did you start your working career?
I started as a technical assistant in 1969 in the Department of Hydrological Services, Ministry of Water Resources, North Central State. I worked in Malumfashi, Dutsinma and Funtua. I was Chief Procurement Officer at the headquarters in Kaduna, and when Katsina State was created in 1987 I was made the district manager in charge of Katsina Metropolis. I was appointed Assistant General Manager, Operations; then General Manager, Operations.
From there I was invited by Alhaji Saidu Barda to be a commissioner in January 1992. That was my entrance into politics. I was posted to the Ministry of Works, Housing and Transport.
In 1992 I became a partisan politician in the National Republican Convention (NRC). From there, after Gen Sani Abacha came to power, there was a constitutional conference where I contested for Malumfashi, Kafur and Danja as representative in the constituent assembly. I was under Katsina Peoples Front (KPF) with Gen Shehu Yar’adua as our leader. I was the chairman. So when we went to the conference, Gen Yar’adua selected me and two others to go and set up structures of the association in Cross River and Akwa Ibom states. When we came back, because Gen Yar’adua was arrested, charged and sentenced, some of us stepped aside.
However, most of our group members joined the United Nigeria Congress Party (UNCP) because we wanted our people to contest in the elections. But some of us said we were not contesting, because you cannot contest an election where the goal post keeps shifting. So when Gen Abacha died, we regrouped under the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and I wanted to contest for the senate, but dropped the idea and contested for the House of Representatives.
Why the house instead of the senate?
There were a lot of alignments and re-alignments. Under UNCP, former Deputy Governor Tukur Jikamshi and MT Liman contested the primaries and Tukur Jikamshi won. So when it was time under PDP, the elders said MT Liman had suffered, hence that I should contest for the House of Representatives and allow him to go to senate. As God willed, I ended up as speaker of the house.
How did you become speaker?
I was the first person to be contacted when Olusegun Obasanjo came for a thank you visit after the elections. He discussed with then Gov Umaru Yar’adua and said he believed I would make a good speaker. So Obasanjo invited me and told me, “Umaru has spoken well about you and so I want you to come and be the speaker”.
However, Salisu Buhari from Kano, had gone round; he went to all the states. So, he emerged the first speaker. He recognised some of us being elders by age. We related well until the problem came that consumed him and Ghali Na’abba came on board as speaker. We kept our distance and did not get involved in those wanting to remove Ghali or those wanting to remove Obasanjo.
Ghali lost out and you eventually became the speaker, what happened?
Ghali didn’t win re-election in his constituency, so he didn’t come back in 2003.
Was the speakership zoned to Katsina?
It was zoned to the North West. I was not the only person who showed interest. What really happened was that our colleagues the “lead group” said I should come and be the speaker. We insisted on cognate experience, and I had the experience.
However, we had a selection process, which was like an election, and all the North West members of the House of Representatives were there. They selected me to be speaker. Alhaji Lawal Kaita was our elder.
The “most” difficult moment during your tenure was the issue of third term. How were you involved?
First of all, it was true; there was an attempt to amend the constitution to allow for president and governors to go for third term. It started with the idea of convocation of a political reform. Obasanjo wanted a legislation for it. We had a meeting in the villa, my deputy, Bawa Bwari, Abdul Ningi, Wabara, Sarki Tafida and Ibrahim Mantu. We met in the first lady’s office with the attorney general. He gave us a draft copy of what they wanted to present to support the political reform, and after going through some of us agreed with the proposal, but I had a contrary view. Firstly, the constitution of 1999 does not envisage a fourth assembly. So the proposal could not be superior to the constitution. I suggested that it was safer to allow the political reform committee to submit its report to the president; if he felt comfortable with the report, he could send a bill for amendment of the constitution. That was what killed that idea. We all left and certainly the initiators of the idea were not happy.
How was your relationship with Obasanjo after that?
Surprisingly, up till now, I have a good relationship with Obasanjo, because I know where he stands and he knows where I stand, we agreed and disagreed.
What was the fundamental basis of your disagreement with him?
There were many issues, of which the amendment of the constitution was the climax. The attempt to dismember Labour Party (LP) was one of them. There were also issues that he was passionate about which the National Assembly had contrary views and different approaches to. But like we always say, we agree to disagree; we didn’t abuse him. I gave him the respect of his office and there was a better way of saying no.
At the end of your tenure as speaker you were the most senior politician from Katsina State and a lot of people thought you would be the governor; what happened?
That was the price I had to pay for the stand I took. When the issue of amending the constitution came, I made my position very clear; that for those who wanted to amend the constitution, the constitution has provision for its amendment, and for those who don’t want to amend the constitution, they are also right in not wanting. However, going by the rules, it will be impossible to amend the constitution.
Some people are of the opinion that your relationship with Yar’adua had a lot to do with your not becoming governor?
Initially, in front of witnesses that are alive, he said I should be governor.
So what happened?
I was not desperate to be governor; so if for whatever reason he felt he didn’t want me to be I was not bothered.
My problem with Umaru was that he did not call to tell me he wanted to be president. I was the one who bought the form of expression of interest for the presidency for him. I was among five people Obasanjo trusted to work on the project of Umaru’s presidency.
But even with you supporting his presidential bid he didn’t support you for governorship; what went wrong?
Simple! Because the constitutional amendment failed and Obasanjo was giving Umaru the presidency with certain conditions, would Umaru have said no to them?
So it was Obasanjo who influenced your not becoming governor then?
Of course you don’t need anybody to tell you that, but he didn’t offend me. Obasanjo might be right, because he came with a request which he believed I did not support and did not work for it to succeed. So for him, why should I succeed? It was a one-one sitution.
There was a time you went into political oblivion; what were you doing?
I always thank God I have a very simple life. As governor, I can walk out, take a motorcycle, ride on it and go home without feeling anything.
Umaru is dead, may his soul rest in peace, but Obasanjo is alive, Nasir el-Rufai is alive, Nuhu Ribadu is alive. I told Obasanjo I didn’t want even the position of a messenger under the government of Umaru in front of them all.
Were you angry with them?
No! I wanted to assert my independence, because I believe in God.
Surprisingly, you made a comeback, and a lot of people are surprised that you were in PDP, then you joined the Gen Muhammadu Buhari movement before becoming governor?
When we left office; with the way PDP was going, Sen Ken Nnamani, myself, El-Rufai, Raymond Dokpesi and many more, some in the background, led a group for a reform of the party. Even Goodluck Jonathan as vice president supported us. We wanted to reform PDP. PDP had 29 states and over 500 local governments. We said if PDP was reformed other smaller parties would reform and we would have a better political environment and the development of democracy would be better for it. In that process, Umaru fell sick and a lot of things happened. We had a meeting in Dubai with Nnamani, El-Rufai, Ribadu and other people, I saw Adamu Waziri, about 54 of us, saying that Umaru should resign because he did not communicate to the National Assembly that he was sick. We looked at the issue, and Nnamani said he was going to issue a statement. Myself and Adamu Waziri said we were not going to withdraw our names, we agreed with it because denying it would make me look bad, myself and Adamu and El-Rufai, we refused. We came back to Nigeria, some of my good friends went to the press, saying that I did not support the movement. I called pressmen to correct it; that I supported what was written. Some people organised a protest in Katsina that I should be removed as Dallatun Katsina; that they were going to burn down my house.
So about this reform which we wanted, what really shocked me was that Obasanjo supported us. Let me go back a little, PDP suspended me, Nnamani, Dokpesi, Peter Odili and most of us that were prominent when Jonathan became president. Namadi Sambo became vice president and was made chairman to reconcile us. He called us and said the party should issue a statement that they had withdrawn the suspension while the issues we raised would be taken to BOT and NEC. Subsequently, they withdrew the suspension and we went to the BOT chaired by Obasanjo and the BOT recommended that we should go to NEC. We went to NEC, Nnamani didn’t go. I represented the forum, governors one by one dressed us down, called us all sorts of names. I pitied Ahmadu Ali who wanted to support us. He was shouted down; by then he had stepped down as PDP chairman. What shocked me was that Jonathan was there, we had a meeting with him when he was vice president and he said if not for his position he would have joined us. We had a meeting after he became president and he directed his Chief of Staff (CoS) to liaise with us. But on that day, governor after governor, chairman after chairman were looking at my face, calling us all sorts of names, but he did not utter a word in our defence.
So after the meeting, I said, “Well; men, I have no place in this place.”
How did you tie up with Buhari and become very relevant in APC in Katsina at the expense of those who were with him all the time?
It’s not as if I was knowing Buhari or his people for the first time. Having worked in the house, I want you to note, about 96 members in the House of Representatives are from the North West, of this 96, 60 at a time came from the ANPP. So to consolidate myself in the North West, I needed them. So my association with them, especially those from Katsina, was excellent. Remember, Ibn Na’Allah came from ANPP, even the governors of Zamfara and Sokoto were from ANPP.
So it was not a difficult thing for me. I didn’t join ANPP, it was when CPC was formed that Hadi Sirika in particular from Jigawa and Farouq Adamu talked to me. We met Gen Buhari. It wasn’t difficult for me to be in CPC because the foot soldiers of Buhari from the North West are people very familiar with me.
What of your relationship with Buhari; is there anything personal?
My relationship with him is that of senior brother and junior brother; that is all.
You have been governor for six years; what is your most difficult moment?
Three of them stand out. When we came in there was a time the revenue dropped to the extent that Katsina State was getting only slightly over N2bn that could not even pay salaries. Then we have school feeding, water treatment chemicals, hospitals; these are necessary things which we must do. The third is the issue of insecurity. Back in 2019, things had started to go bad despite all what we did to restore normalcy in Katsina because a similar thing was not done in Zamfara, and to some extent in Kaduna and Niger. Whereas Zamfara is the mother of all bandits. If you eliminate banditry in Zamfara, you are 80 per cent done.
Also, every minute you are waiting for a call either from the constituents or security agencies, giving information about killings and kidnappings. Then came COVID-19 that affected revenue and everything.
What is the situation now?
Through policies and some measures that we have taken collectively, all the North West governors, including that of Niger State, we have seen some reduction in terms of persistent attacks. We are still on it, but when you compare what is going on, we say thank God because we are seeing some progress.
Do you regret the amnesty given to bandits?
People fail to understand, when we came and wanted to find out what was going on in the forests, we influenced the election of an assistant director in the local government system who is full blooded Fulani and his parents live in the forest of Matazu. Through him we were able to discuss with some of the leaders, then we realised that 90 per cent of people ran into the forests because the Yan Sa Kai were killing any Fulani man they saw. So we invited the Director of DSS, Commissioner of Police, then we had no brigade command, but a commanding officer of battalion; they went into the forests and the people came out and gradually we saw the return of commercial and economic activities and normalcy.
We had nine to 12 groups under Sharan Daji patrolling consisting of the army, police, civil defence and Miyyeti Allah. We had peace for almost two years, but gradually, because Zamfara didn’t do the same thing, all the leaders that we had that dealt with the bandits were killed. So their children, some out of fear, went and joined the bandits, while some fled to Bauchi, Gombe, Jigawa and many places. However, we were able to recover over 400 AK-47 and other guns which they voluntarily surrendered.
So, are you saying the policy is okay, but lacking collaboration?
If all the states did same, maybe the situation would have been different. After the 2019 elections, the Governor of Zamfara embarked on dialogue. I told him he met us on it, and he was supported by the IG of Police and the military. They said we should talk. I said the bandits should select their place, people asked me, “Are you not afraid,” and I said why should I be? If I am afraid, I wouldn’t choose to be governor. I went to their place, we discussed with them but the effort did not last for six months.
From the beginning, based on our experience, we knew no amount of swearing that they did was true; they will always tell lies. So, we tried dialogue and it failed?
Most of the known bandits in Katsina and Zamfara, I can say of the big ones, only three of them, did not come here, but their relatives were in this office. Sani Dangote, Dankarami and Dogo Gide; they were here several times.
In fact, I was on phone with them before I was advised by the security to stop talking to them.
Does that mean only force will work?
Not only force; first of all, we have to dominate the forests. The issue is government must dominate the space, then rehabilitate those that can be rehabilitated, but the hardened ones will have to be prosecuted.
Prosecuted; not killed?
Killing is an art of war. If there is confrontation between the people and them and in the process they get killed, that is fair, because if you don’t kill them, they will kill you. That was why I said our people should not stay and be killed like ants. Because you cannot justify arms; sophisticated arms in the hands of bandits or robbers and you are saying a decent honest man should not hold pump action. It doesn’t make sense, our people should defend themselves.
But who will arm the people?
Where did those people get their own? The people and you journalists have to help the situation. We have a situation here, the bandits will come to this village, kidnap 10 people and say they want N10m, and the people will raise N5m to give them. They will use the N5m to buy more arms and continue kidnapping. But if a Good Samaritan comes to the village and says, “Come let’s contribute money to defend ourselves,” the person that gave N1m as ransom will not give N10,000. What sort of life is this? Now, we all know that the military does not have the numbers, the equipment and technology. The same goes for the police. How many policemen do we have in Katsina? They are not up to 3,000, and we have a population of about eight million, are you telling me 266,000 people to one policeman? Since we know they don’t have the numbers, and they are human beings like me and you, why should I sit in my house in Masari village and expect somebody from Jalingo to come and defend me while I can also defend myself. This man who is killing you, yesterday he was your neighbour. It’s not holding of firearms that makes one a criminal, a criminal is a criminal, if you say holding firearms makes everybody a criminal, then nobody will be in Nigeria today, because how many people are holding arms? The issue is exit strategy. What do we do with the arms? If the arms are in the hands of good people, they can be recovered. But those in the hands of bandits must be confiscated by all means.
When you are done as governor, what will people remember you for?
Let me say not what I think but what I hope. My hope is that people will remember that someone called Aminu Masari was here and he did this and that to add value to our lives; that’s all I want.
What are those things?
It’s up to the people to decide, I have done the best I can under the circumstances that I find myself.
Is there anything special you have done that other governors have not done?
(Smiles) I don’t like passing judgment on myself, I like people passing it on me, but all I can say is that we are governing with the fear of God. We are one of them as leaders; not as rulers.
Servant leader?
Exactly! I don’t allow power to enter me. As I am talking to you, I am the only one living in the government house; my entire family live in my house in a layout because it is permanent while here is temporary.
In practical terms, have you reduced the cost of governance?
First of all, I don’t travel with my commissioners unless to perform a function that affects you. I only go with people who have something to do with my journey.
You see, the problem is not about governance. The problem is the security system that unleashes many DSS officers, police and civil defence officers; they are the permanent residents of this building, while the governors come and go. We have reduced the cost of governance. Take what the previous government got from 2007 to 2014, take what we have received from 2015 to date, yet we have not failed in the payment of salaries and running of schools.
In fact, we have improved hospital services because we employed over 5,000 nurses, doctors, midwives and pharmacists. Even under S-Power, apart from replacement, we have 7,500 teachers that we are paying, in addition to normal teachers, and yet we have not failed to pay salaries. If you retire today, you will be on pension. What we are having challenges with, and we are working towards settling, is gratuity. We have made sure that when you leave, your pension is ready, and we have already submitted the Contributory Pension Scheme (CPS) to the House of Assembly, because it is the only way out. Today, other states that are participating in CPS are not suffering, but we are suffering because Katsina State is not participating.
In terms of infrastructure, Umaru Yar’adua was famous and Ibrahim Shema too did his best…?
I think we can compete favourably with anyone of them in terms of roads. We have built Dutsinma-Tsaskiya-Kukar Samu, which is over 49 kilometres. We have built Gora-Makaurachi-Gamzago, another 49 kilometres. We have constructed Dayi-Wawarkaza, another 39 kilometres. We have built Fago-Kwasarawa-Maiadua-Koza road, which is over 40 kilometres. We have built Marabar Sandamu-kwasarawa, which is almost 20 kilometres. Then we are currently building Kankia-Kusada, we are constructing Kafur-Mahuta-Karaye Road, we are constructing Kankara-Zango which we had to stop because of insecurity. We are constructing Rimaye to Karadua. Then we have rehabilitated Dogon Marke to Kafur, Katsina to Dankama, we are working on Dankama to Maiadua Bumbum, we are doing Zango, from Zango to Rugogo, we reconstructed Marabar Sandamu to Baure, Babanmutum. These are aside feeder roads.
You said when you leave as governor, you are retiring, is that categorical?
Look, I am not going to contest election either to the National Assembly or any other place, not even for party office. If I took you as my adviser in the National Assembly and I rose to the post of speaker; and in APC I rose to the position of Deputy National Chairman, North, now I am governor, the current president is from Katsina, if I say advise me on the office to contest, which one would you advise me to?
Vice president…?
You don’t contest for vice president, you are just an additional requirement because the constitution says you have to be; it is not a contestable office. You cannot present yourself and say I am contesting for it.
What if it comes your way?
I am not aspiring for it. (Laughs)
This interview was transcribed by Tijjani Ibrahim
