Ahmed Tijjani Abdullahi is a professor of Mechanical Engineering, who taught for many years at Ahmadu Bello University (ABU), Zaria. He was principal of the School of Technology, Kano (1976-9); Dean of the School of Engineering, Tafawa Balewa University, Bauchi (1984-88) and Rector of the Kaduna Polytechnic (1988-96). He capped this aspect of his career as Executive Secretary, National Board for Technical Education (NBTE). As an administrator, he was a commissioner during the government of Abubakar Rimi in Kano (1979-83) before he became the deputy governor for a few months in 1983.
Prof., take us to your early days in Jigawa State.
I was born in Ringim in Jigawa State on 15th January 1945 and I did my junior primary school in Ringim and then moved to Gwarzo for senior primary school. I was in Rumfa College from 1960 to 1965 and from there I went to Government Secondary School, Okene for my Higher School Certificate after which I was admitted into Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria from 1968 to 1971.
Let’s stop at Okene; how come from Jigawa you went to Okene for higher school?
I wanted to do mathematics-physics and at that time these courses were done only in three places – Keffi Government College, Kings College, Lagos and Government Secondary School, Okene. By the time they took the exam to Kings College Lagos my principal in Kano was not aware of the movement. So the only alternative left was for me to go to Okene.
How was it going to Okene from Jigawa State then?
No, it was not from Jigawa State, it was from Kano. It was a very difficult situation but even at that young age, we used to go board the train from here down to Ilorin and then go by road to Okene.
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Were you alone or were some mates with you?
I was the only one from Kano.
How did you fit in and how did the study go?
Well, by the time I was in final year in Kano, I was the only student who got credit in what was called additional mathematics and that credit was six, which was the lowest credit. By the time I went to Okene Secondary School for HSC, I realised that in my class, there was a student who scored A in all courses he took. When they first conducted test, I hardly scored 40 but within the two years, I was able to go up to the highest in the class, so the atmosphere was very good for academic learning. And then the teachers too were very dedicated. The late Prof. Ibrahim Umar was one of my teachers.
In Okene?
In Okene, yes. He was in Okene for his certificate in education. You know, before when you graduate, you have to do the certificate in education for you to be a professional teacher. So he was in Okene and he taught me mathematics.
So you are lucky to have somebody from Kano who was also there…
It was a coincidence but, well, most of the other lecturers were foreigners. Yes.
Your love for mathematics, was it specifically aimed at you studying engineering or you wanted to be a mathematician?
No, the situation was that Prof. A. T. Suleiman was ahead of me because he went to Kings College and then he was taken from class six to senior secondary school. He gained two years ahead of me but he lost one year as a result of sickness. So I was aiming at catching him up.
Because you are from the same town?
Everything, same town; we were even related, yes. So because of him, I was able to develop interest in mechanical engineering. He was ahead of me by one year in ABU.
Was your choice of Mechanical Engineering deliberate, or it was just something that was available in ABU then?
No, this type of question was asked during the scholarship interview here in Kano. I said I learnt that mechanical engineering was the most difficult of the engineering courses, therefore I wanted to see how far I could go. Luckily I was able to go up to PhD level.
When you did your first degree at ABU in Mechanical Engineering, did you work before you went to Manchester for your PhD?
Yes, I was a pupil engineer at Ahmadu Bello University, Instrument Department. Professor Ishaya Audu, who was the vice chancellor, wanted somebody to study machine tools technology and therefore he obtained admission for me from the University of Manchester. At first I didn’t like to go, but later it occurred to me that it was one of the rare courses available.
Why were you reluctant to go?
At that time, when you hear machine tools technology, you will think probably the study will be for ordinary tools.
Workshop?
Yes, but actually it was dealing with big, big machines that produce parts for other machines. And after he gave me the pamphlet and I went through it, I realised that it was a very good course and therefore I decide to accept the offer.
Were you sponsored by ABU or Kano State government?
I was sent by ABU but I went and attended the interview for Kano State and therefore I got Kano State scholarship. So after three months or so, it occurred to me that it was better for me to tell ABU that I was on Kano State scholarship.
How was life in Manchester for a young man at that point?
It was okay. I was able to cope, only that it was very cold because initially we were taken b,y the British Council and attached to the house of an elderly couple. Later o,n I realized that it was too restrictive, so decided to leave the place.
I left and got a rented apartment. I realised that a big room in Manchester was a disadvantage; when you put the heater on you will only be able to warm your feet, your hands on the table will be extremely cold. I complained and the University of Manchester moved me to the student hostel.
Did you go with your family at that point?
No, I didn’t marry until after I finished PhD.
So what happened when you were a brand new PhD holder when you came back to Nigeria?
Well, I returned to Ahmadu Bello University and started lecturing and after a year, the Kano State government wanted to open a technical college in Kano, so they invited me to come and open the college.
I was the pioneer principal of Kano Technical College, which later became School of Technology. I started the ND programmes, certificate programmes, and so on and to some extent HND programmes.
How come you veered off from being a teacher, a lecturer, an administrator of a college into the government of Governor Abubakar Rimi in 1979?
Well, even when I was in School of Technology, I was very interested in politics, although I did not take part in active politics up till that time but there were periods when we were recruited by NEPU to be their agents in elections in Northern Nigeria. And Abubakar Rimi was aware of that; that was why after he won the election as governor of Kano State, he invited me and he wanted to know which post I was interested in and I said no, let him give me any post he considered me suitable. He decided to appoint me Commissioner for Works and Housing in 1979.
How was it working for Rimi. His supporters say he did a lot in Kano, others will say maybe not?
As far as emancipation of the masses is concerned and physical development, he did tremendously well. You know the opposition, they didn’t like that to be reflected as his achievements. Those in the NPN then were critical of many of his activities, especially his pronouncements. He used to joke about President Shagari even though they respected each other. It was only when they go to the masses that they showed otherwise.
You were Commissioner for Works and Housing, so what were those physical developments that you would say happened in his government?
Well, first of all, as commissioner for works and housing, we inherited a number of capital projects which were by then on going. Like the Kano-Hadejia road which got stalled but we were able to finish it. There was the Gwaram-Basika road which we completed; there were projects dealing with area courts which were non-existent at that time, we established them. We completed the Kundila Housing Estate, which was started and abandoned.
There were blocks of flats that were in different places, one here in School of Technology. There was one on Court Road. Some of others, like the one in Court Road, we couldn’t complete them because of financial problem. The government decided to sell to other parastatals, so those on Court Road were sold to Bayero University Kano.
What would you say is your best performance, as Commissioner for Works or later as Commissioner for Education?
As commissioner for Works, the achievements were physical, so you can see them. As Commissioner for Education, enhancing education and establishment of junior secondary schools were the main achievements we had.
Before my appointment as commissioner for education, there were very few junior secondary schools. They were established to take the large number of candidates coming out of provincial primary schools. So we established the junior secondary schools.
We enhanced education as at that time. Even though, you know, when you have so many schools, you get into problem of financing but we were able to do that.
What of the science secondary schools?
The two science secondary schools in Dawakin Kudu and Dawakin Tofa were established during the time of Governor Sani Bello and I was privileged to be one of the members of the governing board. And when I came to the Ministry of Education, I was able to enhance their performance and it was during that time that we sent students to Bulgaria to study medicine.
I was happy when I found that most of the consultants in Aminu Kano Teaching Hospital are products of the science secondary schools.
So, when Rimi’s tenure ended in 1983, why did you suddenly leave the government?
No, I didn’t leave the government. What happened was that the provision of the constitution required that if you are not a member of the political party which elected you or which will be ready to allow you to contest under its platform, then you have to contest under the platform of another party, in which case you have to resign as governor (as PRP governor) and then contest as NPP gubernatorial candidate which was the case.
That’s for Rimi, right?
For Rimi. He had to give the six months’ notice. So when he resigned, the deputy governor then, Alh. Audu Dawakin Tofa, became the governor then somebody else had to be appointed deputy governor and my name was sent to the state house of assembly recommending that I be the deputy governor and the assembly so approved.
So, for that period you were deputy governor until the election?
I was deputy governor from May to September 1983.
How was the experience; a lot of people say deputy governors are just spare tyres?
No, as far as I was concerned I was deputy governor and I was commissioner for education. I had too much in my hands and for the final few weeks to hand over, I was the acting governor of Kano State.
Did that put into your head the thought of further political involvement; contesting election yourself?
No, by the time I was deputy governor, Rimi was contesting together with Mahmud Usman. Mahmud Usman was his deputy, so that did not give me room to go into politics. Mahmud Usman was much better politically; he could speak fluently, you knew how politics was. And after the coup (1984) everybody realised that he should look for alternative means of living and being previously an academician, I decided to go back to the university.
You went to Bauchi?
I went to Abubakar Tafawa Balewa College, Bauchi.
Was that satisfying; you were a commissioner, you were an acting governor and suddenly you were back to the classroom?
You know I did the sabbatical in Kiri-Kiri Maximum Security Prison, I was in Kiri-Kiri for 20 days together with Vice President Alex Ekwueme and all the other governors at that time and that period was memorable because it brings you to the level of ordinary person.
After going higher, you come low….
Yes, you feel modest in whatever you do. So when I went back to Bauchi as a lecturer I really didn’t feel anything.
It was better than Kiri-Kiri?
Kiri-Kiri, we were there for only for 20 days and I was detained here (Kano) for 70 days, making the whole detention period a total of three months. I felt nothing, it was part of the experience in life.
But was it unjust; did you feel that you did nothing and you were just detained?
No, at that time they were investigating, you know they investigated the performances of all commissioners. The detention in Kiri-Kiri Prison was for security reasons. They wanted to stabilise the government, therefore they felt that these governors, deputy governors, president, vice president should not be allowed to remain in public view. But immediately the investigation was completed, they realised that we didn’t do anything; we lived according to our means and I collected no bribe from anybody and this same house I am in, is the one that I built with a loan from the bank, so they released me.
Sir, you were in Bauchi and I don’t think you stayed too long before you were offered the rectorship of the largest technical college, Kaduna Polytechnic?
Well, I was in Bauchi for four years and after that there was an advertisement for new rector for Kaduna Polytechnic. At that time, there was a law that prohibited deputy governors, former deputy governors taking up public appointment. But I think they realised that that was not fair because there were some deputy governors who had no case to answer. So they allowed me to take part in the interview and subsequently, I was appointed the Rector of Kaduna Polytechnic in 1988.
I think you spent almost eight years there?
Yes, I was there for full eight years; two terms.
How was it?
It was memorable, I was the only person who stayed two terms and, thank God, throughout the period there was never a time when Kaduna Polytechnic was closed because of security problem.
Lack of security was what took me to Kaduna Polytechnic. There was some misunderstanding between the Christian and Muslim communities on the siting of a chapel so they appointed me rector. The problem was as a result of a mosque located by one of the gates and then the Christians also wanted to have a chapel by the other gate since there were two gates. So that was the thing that brought the problem.
But when I was appointed, after inspecting the facilities, I realised that there used to be a central gate and I said why shouldn’t the gate be brought to this place. They said no, no, and deliberately they built a post office to block the gate. I said I will close the two gates and then constructed the central gate which is still the one that the polytechnic is using.
That solved the problem?
Yes.
Did you expect, after the polytechnic, that it was a natural promotion for you to go to the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE)?
Well, since NBTE was looking after all the polytechnics in the country, federal, state as well as private, it was a much better, bigger responsibility.
And how long did you stay at NBTE?
I stayed in NBTE for three and a half years. The normal single term is five years but you know the situation, there are things that you need to do to please your superior officers and if you don’t do them, no matter how hard working you are, they will not like you. So actually that was the main problem.
I had similar situation in Kaduna Polytechnic when the federal government took (it) over. Before then, as Rector of Kaduna Polytechnic, there was no job in Nigeria which was more secure because no single governor could remove you or even suspend you. It has to take a meeting of all the northern states governors and I enjoyed that protection for all the period.
What kind of pressure did you face at the NBTE?
At NBTE, the pressure was only from the centre.
The federal government?
One cannot say from the federal government.
Ministry of Education?
Exactly. There were three people, the minister, the minister of state and the permanent secretary. Apparently, my problem was with the minister of state and the permanent secretary.
My fault is not allowing them to get a chunk of the allocations of the NBTE. If I didn’t like to “chop” why should I steal and give somebody. So that was the crux of the matter, you know. So they felt they needed to get somebody else.
So, what did you do?
I retired from the service.
Before your tenure was over?
Yes, I had to because it was an appointment, political appointment. So since somebody was appointed in my place, I had to leave. I could have transferred my service to the university, but unfortunately I did not do that.
But after I returned to Kano, I realised that I was wasting my brain. So I decided to take up contract appointment with Bayero University Kano.
Why didn’t you fight for what was right in NBTE?
I did. I wrote two petitions to the National Assembly. I gave them brief of what happened. So based on my petition, the three people who petitioned against me, disciplinary action was taken against them. I was complaining that I was the one who made an investigation, found them faulty and instead of them to be punished, they removed me from the place.
So they decided to take action on them. One of them was retired and unfortunately he developed heart attack and died instantly on hearing the retirement. The second person was dismissed and the third was demoted. So it was the National Assembly that took up the matter with the minister.
You couldn’t reach higher, couldn’t get the full minister or the presidency to intervene?
No, since the government had already appointed another person, you know governments don’t like to undo things, so they decided to take action only on my petition.
You have served in many roles, as an administrator, educationist…
Yes.
How big is the issue of corruption in the system, and what is it doing, especially to education?
Well, during our time, one could say that there was very little corruption because for appointments, admission and so on, you don’t need to pay anything. In fact, admission into Kaduna Polytechnic for instance was so easy. Sometimes after the initial admission, I used to sit down in one place and the students looking for admission used to line up and many asked and if I will admit them on a supplementary list. So, there was no problem and the same thing for employment.
But you can contrast the situation, particularly during the current political dispensation. It is widely believed that you have to pay to get employed. And you hear of several people, officials, being accused of stealing billions of naira. The situation is unfortunate.
But even in your time, as the head of federal parastatal, there was pressure on you to let off a big chunk of the budget to people higher up…
But the fact is I did not. If I had done it I would have remained as the ES. They would be very happy to give me second term, but because I did not do it, they felt they needed somebody who would do it for them. And this is a part of life. What they want is, even if you are not corrupt, you close your eyes and allow the corruption to proceed.
What do you think made you different? Is it upbringing, is it religion; a lot of the people in your position will cooperate and also get the ‘benefits’?
Yes, I think both. Religiously I was upright to a large extent. My colleagues told me that even in senior primary school in Gwarzo, I was appointed the person to look after what we had at that time, Honesty Shop. Now that Honesty Shop, there were provisions and there was nobody there, so you just go there, you pay what you want, you take your change.
So you had this honour system?
Honesty Shop it was called.
You take something and you keep the money?
Yes, you take something, you put your money, if you need change, take the change.
And you were overseeing the shop?
Yes, I was overseeing the shop at one time and you know, discipline at that time was such that everybody was brought to the same level. Once you enter the premises, the gate, you are forced to remove your shoes, even the son of the emir of Kano had to remove his shoes, so we were together, no distinction.
But one of the things senior civil servants say is that well, once you reach this position, unless you took care of yourself while you are in that position then who takes care of you after; pensions are small, didn’t you have that fear, leaving all these big jobs, what happens to you after?
No, that is where religion comes in. You know, no matter whether you are in that job or you are retired, God will take care of you. Therefore, you are afraid of taking what is not lawfully yours. The crux of the matter, is that in religious terms, you don’t want haram.
But were you comfortable when you retired, did you feel that you were unjustly thrown out and you had nothing to rely on?
No, after I returned to BUK, you now for one or two years, I was not very active because I left the university much earlier but later on I acclimatised and I was able to proceed, academically successfully. I became associate professor and later on I became a professor three years before my final retirement.
So are you still active as a lecturer?
Yes of course.
In BUK?
No, I left Bayero University in 2018, three years after I became a professor. Now from that time on I had been going on NUC assignments to various universities and I enjoy it very much. I am very comfortable.
You know some of my colleagues from other states, they were getting millions from government because they were former deputy governors. When somebody talked to me, I said no, I think that money is haram, I don’t like it.
So even if they say they are going to give me I will not accept. I couldn’t leave my position of deputy governor and 40 years later somebody comes to say he would give me something.
Because they passed laws later to say these are retirement benefits for governors and deputies?
Yes.
Did it happen here in Kano?
Yes it did. The only thing is that in Kano, they did not consider those of us in the
Second Republic, but in Katsina for instance, they were included.
So what do you do beside your occasional NUC assignments; what do you do now in retirement?
That is the only thing I do, I only take part in NUC assignments. Now when I was in primary school, my father had a large portion of land which he inherited but because I went abroad for study, the traditional rulers at that time claimed that it was only small portion of his land that was his, the rest were loaned to him. And therefore before I came back, they had already distributed or sold most of the land, only the small piece of was left and because of that I lost interest in farming.
What about politics? You were once a member of the PRP and there have been efforts to revive the party and you are one of the senior people, except for Governor Abba Musa Rimi, who was governor of PRP, you are the next most senior, you never took interest in this?
No, just as you mentioned, even Governor Abba Musa Rimi did not go back into politics. He stayed off because honestly the political system changed completely, you had to be rich or corrupt to be in politics, or both.
Any hope that we can rescue the system from these vices?
It is very difficult to say, but I don’t think the current system, the way we are going, I don’t think there is hope.
We have a new government and a lot of people are thinking well, maybe this is a fresh start; how do you see the start?
Okay it may be a fresh start but actually and unfortunately the start is not good. What I did not tell you was that I was one of the founding members of APC. I registered in 2014 when APC was established and I registered last year during the new registration.
But it looks like there are some problems associated with the current government that will be very difficult to resolve. In the first place, it was good for them to remove the subsidy but I think they should have prepared for the cushioning effect before they removed it outright.
You can give the new president the benefit of doubt; hoping that he will still be able to correct the mistakes that have been made. But the main problem of the current political dispensation is the legislature, both the states and the federal. In the states they are all in the pockets of the governors, but the federal legislators are the ones holding the executive hostage.
As you said yourself, you look good for 78; is it genes or is it lifestyle; what do you do to keep fit?
I think maybe it is genes because my mother was 117 years by 2013 when she died.
Is this verified because this looks like a very long life?
It is not an independent verification, but when she mentioned the various happening during her youth, it was confirmed that she was well over 100. Except for the last year or two of her life, she was doing everything by herself. She never even used a walking stick. So in that case, I was maybe having some of her genes.
But I believe in myself that it is partly because when I was given responsibility to take charge of public funds, I did not steal the money and kept it for myself. I believe that this maybe one of the reasons why God has given me the strength to continue even at this age.
Do you do anything to keep healthy: exercise, any special diet?
No, I don’t.
What do you enjoy doing in your free time; do you have any hobbies?
Well, I read the Qur’an. That is all I do. I don’t do any other activity apart from that.
You don’t do any walking, any exercises?
No, our mosque is nearby, I walk to the mosque, come back. I feel that is enough for me as exercise.
Do you have a social life with friends, classmates that are still around you?
We have a group of our classmates who graduated from Rumfa College in 1965. We hold meetings twice a year, but in terms of interaction between us, it’s very small – very few interactions.
Everybody is in his house?
Yes, mostly.
Do you like travelling still, do you have a chance for that?
I do, but I have no means. Even now, my car needs N40,000 N50,000 to change the power steering oil. I am trying to see how I could raise the money. If you cannot raise even N50,000, how can you finance yourself for travelling? But I am happy, very happy.
How is family life for you, I mean 13 children sounds to me like quite a number?
It is, but as you know, we have a system whereby the working members of the family supplement the income of the father. So these are the ones that are taking care of the running of the house.
If it were for the federal government, I wouldn’t be eating since there is no pension for two weeks, which is unprecedented.
You have been in politics, you have been an academic, what specific steps will you suggest to improve what is happening in Nigeria?
It is very difficult to suggest anything because what should genuinely be done could hardly be done.
So you have lost hope that anything can be done to improve the system?
Under the current dispensation, I don’t think we will be able to solve the problems; however, this is my personal view.
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