Malam Umar Namadi had served as commissioner of finance, then deputy governor to Alhaji Badaru Abubakar and is now the governor of Jigawa State. In this interview on Trust TV ‘s 30 Minutes programme with Mannir Dan- Ali, he spoke on his new role, some of the infractions that happened within the transition period and the actions being taken, his plans for agriculture and other sectors to empower the people, among others.
What was the most shocking thing you found on assumption of office as governor?
I have been part of the system in Jigawa State for the past eight years. I was Commissioner for Finance for four years and then deputy governor for four years. So, it means I was part and parcel of the last administration for eight years.
Really, it was not so shocking to the extent that it was something that you would feel unexpected, but in every circumstance when you give trust to people, you need to follow it up to ensure that the trust is executed as it is supposed to be executed.
So, what you found shocking was that the trust was breached?
That was exactly what happened. The trust was breached, and then I think it was very shocking because we didn’t expect it, because as much as possible we expected that we are all Jigawa citizens and we are serving Jigawa people.
So, everybody, civil servants, politicians, every other person, there is a covenant between us and the people of Jigawa. We expect everybody to do his job. But unfortunately, we found out that somehow some people have not been doing their jobs.
Will there be consequences?
Certainly, already a committee is in place to look at those breaches, and whatever the outcome of the committee’s recommendation is, we are going to implement it.
What sort of breaches are they?
Breaches in the sense that you see like I said you give people trust, go and do this, do this ABC, but somebody instead will do just A and stop without doing B and C, or you say go and do this and this, and he shortchanges people. It is very bad.
Did any money miss?
Certainly, money is missing.
Are we talking millions or billions?
Maybe millions.
Hundreds?
Certainly.
I assume, as the brain probably behind my calculator position of your former governor’s stance, which you emphasise you will want to continue, you wouldn’t break such breaches where money meant for something is applied elsewhere; going into people’s private pockets.
We will not allow that, and that was why we decided to put in a very powerful committee under the chairmanship of the chief of staff of government house, and it includes people from outside, people of integrity that are looking at the issues, and whatever is the outcome of that, definitely people will have to face the consequences of their actions.
I heard on Jigawa Radio that there is also a committee that is investigating how land was acquired over a certain period, and which is maybe partly fueling some of the herder-farmer clashes; is it like a probe of how land was allocated under your predecessor?
No; not really a probe. You see, maybe people misunderstood this, what happened is that in between the transition period people cashed in, took advantage and then lands were allocated either at local government level or at the state level without the proper authority.
You all know that the proper authority to allocate land is the governor. Unfortunately, all these lands were allocated without the instruction of the former government. So, definitely there were breaches and we felt that these breaches need to be investigated.
More so, some of these lands are allocated in areas that are grazing reserves, and you just went ahead and converted grazing reserves into farming land. It is very wrong.
It is a law in Jigawa State that all grazing reserves are preserved, all cattle routes are preserved and therefore we don’t allow people to go and tamper with those things. Unfortunately, people took advantage because there was a transition. They felt that they could cash in on that period and do what they wanted to do.
Will there be punishment if people are found wanting in that area?
What we did was that in the first instance we announced that all those lands have been revoked. The committee has been asked to go and find out who and who did what or that.
The committee has been asked to demarcate those lands and take them to their proper places. Definitely, in the course of their work, once those that have breached or have taken advantage to do what is wrong will have to face the consequences.
Because the issue is, as much as possible, we need to understand and that is why part of our agenda is the introduction of the reward and punishment system. Once you do something that is good, we will reward you, we will encourage you. We will hail you because you have done something that is right.
But once you do something against the law, definitely you have to understand that you have made a mistake and then you have to face the consequences.
Does this include what we saw on social media about some land or property between Kano and Jigawa states that are a bone of contention now?
That is another thing entirely. What we are asking is, you know once there is this sharing of assets between Kano and Jigawa states, we realised that some of our assets have wrongly being converted to personal use, and we feel we need to get them back to Jigawa because they are assets that belong to Jigawa State. That was why we wrote a letter and the Kano State Government accepted our letter and agreed that they would look at the issues and find out what happened.
The Kano State Government and our people are working. It is not that we are accusing anybody or we are accusing any particular government, no, but what we are saying is that those are our property. Please you are responsible, find out what happened to our property and return them to us; that’s all.
In your findings, did they indicate it is private individuals of Kano State origin or of Jigawa State origin who have taken over these property of yours?
No, no, no! The investigation will reveal. So far, what we are saying is that we have X houses, X lands and X this which are supposed to be our own, but now have not come to us. We are demanding that they come back to us.
So now the investigation will reveal whether an individual from Jigawa or an individual from Kano converted them, the investigation will reveal it and definitely we will get our property back.
Back to your blueprint when you were campaigning, I wonder if it is implementable?
Certainly! The blueprint is not a blueprint that is designed for political reasons. Like I always say, I have been in this system for eight years, so I know what and what we need and what and what we are supposed to do and what and what we started and have not completed. What and what do we have planned but time did not allow us; the former administration to finish.
These are issues that are contained in that blueprint. So, it is not something that somebody sits down blindly, no; it was designed based on reality and on what is on ground.
But some seem to be fueled by big contracts, these mega schools, one in each of the 27 LGAs of the state, instead of maybe equipping the teachers, making them up-to-date…because now you have beautiful schools, and maybe no teachers?
No! We didn’t say one mega school in each of the 27 LGAs, there is nothing like that in the blueprint. What we said is, we are going, we already have centres of excellence in existence, so what we are trying to do is we will review those centres and see where they are lacking and we improve them, and where we feel there is the need to put a mega school, we will put it.
I recall your predecessor saying that he had one rule, that anybody who retired, he didn’t replace him so long as he was not a teacher. Is that what is still obtainable or have you now opened up employment and are replacing critical areas of need?
It is not that he said he would not replace them. You see, it is the fiscal space, and at that point I think the most priority area is the teachers and the health workers, and within this period, definitely teachers and health workers were employed.
Now those other areas of the civil service where employment has not been done, it has never in any way affected the running of the civil service. So, it is not a rule of thumb, it is just because of trying to weigh in the situations.
But what he tried to do was okay. These people retired from the civil service, as long as their retirement did not affect the work….
But who determines their retirement doesn’t affect the work?
We are all in the system. Affecting the work means something is not being done. Everything is going well. It is something that the fiscal space did not allow for employment of teachers and civil servants.
But now what we are trying to do is, we are working on the possibilities, we will fill the essential vacancies in the civil service, at least to ginger the civil servants and also get them to be on board.
Some essential vacancies, definitely we are going to fill them and then we will continue to employ teachers and health workers.
So, in the critical areas, you have no issues with the teachers and workers as they are well qualified?
No! If you say there is no issue, I think it is not right. Certainly, there must be issues. We still have to work to ensure that we employ more teachers, because we still have some schools where there is no good complement of teachers, we still have hospitals where we don’t have a complement of health workers. We are working. But the question is the fiscal space, once the fiscal space allows that then we will go ahead and do employment.
In addition to that, like in the education sector, we are trying to introduce technology that will bridge the gap of scarcity of teachers. So, we are trying to employ technology so that we will be able to bridge that gap.
What of agriculture, the mainstay of Jigawa’s economy? I heard you talk about fertiliser, but if you don’t have the right seeds, you are doomed from the beginning. Is there a comprehensive plan that works and that reaches the greater number of Jigawa farmers, not just the elite ones around the governor and the government house?
Throughout the last eight years we have employed a programme. First of all, a comprehensive plan. We have an agricultural policy on ground which has been in the running and which was approved by the State Executive Council.
And part of the agricultural policy is the cluster system of farming, and that cluster system means people at the grassroots. When people are put in clusters, they will be given a piece of land like a minimum of 50 to 100 hectares and then they will be given all the necessary inputs: seeds, chemicals, fertilizers, insecticides, etc.
And the seeds?
The seeds are there. The extension workers will be attached to each cluster or an extension officer will be attached to about two or three clusters so as to guide the farmers on when to start planting and when to apply fertiliser, herbicides, and also when to harvest.
Are you looking at any competitive advantage that Jigawa has, maybe gold deposits. I have heard some people mention sesame. Are you concentrating on any single one?
Yea! We have crops that we have agreed on and we are continuing with them. We have rice, we have sesame, we have hibiscus, we have wheat, and in fact we have groundnut. For now we are concentrating on these four, maybe groundnut later on.
Let’s widen the scope and look beyond Jigawa. Governors are seen to be too powerful in the current republic, even the most imperial of presidents, Olusegun Obasanjo, was kind of tamed by the governors; is your set going to be any different, are you going to be breathing down the neck of President Tinubu or are you less assertive?
I don’t really understand why governors are too powerful. The governors are the leaders in their own states and they were elected to serve their people, and whatever they will do, they will do it in the service of their own people.
The president was elected also as the head of the country and also is to serve Nigerians, including the governors. So, they need to work together whether they are from the same party or not, because at this time politics is over, what is important is governance.
What is happening is that they are also to execute the policies of their parties; maybe sometimes we are talking of the manifestos of their parties, but the main objective is to ensure that it is to move the country forward.
But why do the presidents allow governors to do as they wish; governors do not allow local governments to function. As we speak, no local government is functioning as they should in Nigeria?
No, no, no! I think maybe you have a misunderstanding. The issue is not the presidents allowing the governors to do what they want to do, no. The presidents allow the governors to do what is in accordance with the provisions of the constitution, to perform their functions, and that is exactly what is happening.
At the local government level, it may not be all the states, but in most of the states, no, especially with the financial intelligence regulations which allow for financial autonomy for the local governments.
I can tell you about my state, even before the instruction from the Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU), the governor doesn’t touch local government funds.
And they go to the local governments?
The funds go directly to the local governments because they go to the JAC account and from the JAC account there will be a disbursement meeting and then from there they will be disbursed to each of the local governments.
You mean from the joint account it doesn’t have to be based on the instructions of the governors? Because we hear that a lot of the local governments can’t do anything beyond N50,000, except maybe paying salaries, which even that one is not actually under their purview?
I don’t know, but from the experience from my state, I think for the last eight years, at the end of every FAC meeting, state money goes into FAC account, while the local government money goes into JAC account.
And there at the JAC account, nobody will touch that money, they will go and do what they call disbursement meeting; all the local governments will meet with the Commissioner for Finance and the account general, with the Commissioner for Local Governments, and then they will share the money accordingly to each local government.
But we hear that there are all sorts of people on the payroll of the local governments, including toddlers and babies that are yet to be weaned?
That is something that needs to be investigated to confirm. But really, I think part of their issue is they have an over-bloated workforce and that is why some of them cannot even be able to pay salaries. So, the state governments in most cases have to lend them money to pay salaries. But since we came in they have been paying their salaries, we have not been lending money to them at all.
So, are you going to help and nudge them towards having the right number of work force that can actually deliver the services needed by the local people within their budgets?
We are working on that. We are trying to do biometrics and we will do it for the state government and we will also encourage the local governments to do it. In addition to the biometrics, we realised that because some of the people are a bit freer in the local governments, they have utilised the opportunity to improve themselves, I mean improve themselves to get additional qualifications; which is good for us.
So, what we intend to do is that we will try as much as possible to take the census of people that are in the local government level, some of them have even got masters’ degrees, some of them are first degree holders, so we will look at that professional line, then we will be able to take them back to the state government so that they will complement the vacancies we have in the state government.
When we have taken them off the payroll of the local government, they will come to the state and that will give opportunity, even the local governments will be able to employ much more junior people that will assist them, or if they feel they are comfortable, they can go ahead and that will even help them to have more resources that will be able to execute work for their people.
As a chartered accountant, do you feel comfortable that a fraction of the population in all states, not just in Jigawa, is sucking up all the cream, that most of the allocations are going to just pay salaries of maybe 20,000 people in a state of 3 three million and the rest of the people have very little resources to cater for them?
I think not in all cases. Example, what I am saying, take a chunk of the money, yea, but they are also rendering services.
In most cases the services are not available?
They are rendering services, civil service is the engine room of any government. You can’t execute any policy without the civil service. So, I don’t feel there is anything wrong…
For them (few) to take up 70 per cent?
What you are paying for, not 70 per cent, that is, I don’t think that is correct actually in all the cases. It is not correct, but they really take part of the money. They take 40, 30 per cent of the money, and in most cases up to 50 per cent; depending on the payroll of the state.
But I still believe they deserve it because they work, they execute the policies that will improve the lives of the people.
What about the farmers and the business people who pay taxes to the government?
The workers are also paying taxes. In fact, the most important people that pay tax in Nigeria are the workers.
Because they have no option, it is taken at source?
Yea, so it means they are the ones that pay taxes. But what I am still saying is this, workers are the engine room, they execute all the policies.
Whatever agricultural policies we want to do to improve the lives of our farmers, we have to do it through the workers. If they are not paid well, they will do something else that may not, even the little that remains, will not benefit the farmers. So, I think there is nothing wrong in paying the workers.
But what I am saying is, try to, whatever remains, and that is what we are enforcing in Jigawa State, have taken your own share, this is meant for the people, ensure that you give them.
If you don’t give them, certainly consequences will follow. That is why you see us sometimes getting furious when we notice that.
Is it because of your background in the private sector, Dangote, your own firm and other chartered accounting firms, that is informing your concern that there isn’t much about delivering of service even when they are (few) are sucking so much money?
It may be part of it, but you see, it is the mission and the vision you have. The essence of governance is improving the lives of the people, and so once you find yourself in a position of authority, you should do your best to ensure that you have discharged that responsibility to serve the people, and anything that will stop you from serving the people, you need to question that thing.
The issue is we are all elected, we campaign day and night, sometimes we knock these people doors’ in the night, they sleep, they wake up and they come with the rain, with the sun and they vote for us. For God’s sake, why can’t we do what is right for them.
One area that needed federal attention was the flooding last year. Jigawa was affected, Ringim, and even Gome, almost every part of the state. Reporters from Daily Trust recently went to some of the areas and they said not a single help had been offered to them, why is this so?
I don’t agree with you that no help has been given to them. You are all aware that in Jigawa State two committees were established by the former administration. We have a technical committee on flooding and we have a technical committee to assist victims.
But committees they say is the way to kill any idea?
No! The committees have done their best.
What sort of help did they give?
The committee on flooding collected contributions; more than 1.2bn.
And where was it applied?
They have distributed it to all the flood victims in Jigawa State.
Maybe it is too little given the enormity of the scale of the flooding?
The money may not be enough, certainly with the disaster that happened in 2022 in Jigawa State, there is nothing you can do to compensate the people.
What about the federal authority, has anything been done?
Yes! They have done their own contribution, NEMA has come in several times; they have brought relief materials. Also, other organisations like UNICEF have assisted. But the quantum of losses suffered by the people is just too much.
Have you ensured that this year it won’t happen or if it happens you have taken measures?
First of all, we are praying, we are hoping that God will intervene and it will not happen again. In addition to that, we have taken measures within the little resources we have.
Two excavators were bought by the state government and they have done about 45km of dredging the river, and also we are doing a lot of embankments in the flood prone areas.
By now they would have reached about 92km to 100km of embankment. We hope and pray that this year the flood, will be very minimal even if it happens.
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