It’s wrong to decide NASS leadership along religious lines – Kawu Sumaila

Kawu Sumaila will be representing Kano South in the 10th Senate on the platform of the New Nigeria Peoples Party (NNPP). He had served three terms in the House of Representatives and was the Deputy Minority Leader of the 6th and 7th House and then served as former Senior Special Assistant to President Muhammadu Buhari on National Assembly (House of Representatives) Matters. In this interview on Trust TV’s Daily Politics programme, he said the call by President Bola Tinubu for the 109 senators to support the candidature of Senator Godswill Akpabio (APC, Akwa Ibom) as Senate president and Senator Barau Jibrin (APC, Kano) as his deputy would be tested on Tuesday because other contenders, such as Abdulaziz Yari and Orji Uzor Kalu, are still in the race.

You were part of the entourage of the senator-elect, Abdulaziz Yari during a visit to the headquarters of some political parties, including the NNPP, which you belong, why is he still in the race despite the fact that his party, the APC and President Tinubu have settled for Senators Akpabio and Barau?

Well, we are heading to the election of the principal offices of the 10th Senate of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, Insha Allah, on June 13, 2023.

With which intention are you going there; would you support the choice of the All Progressives Congress (APC) and the president?

Our intention is to have a Senate or an independent National Assembly led by those who are elected or selected by the membership of the National Assembly.

You are talking of like-minds? 

Not like-minds alone, we are looking towards a product of free, fair election in tandem with the constitutional requirement.

Why are you people against the choices made by Tinubu? 

Between 2003 and 2007, all his members were solidly behind any move in the House or Senate to support the emergence of the leadership in the two chambers through democratic process. But in 2011, he (Tinubu) came out boldly and endorsed the candidature of Aminu Waziri Tambuwal.

Why? 

Because there was a sign of imposition, undemocratic approach by the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and Villa, and from our strengths, we realised that we could challenge the PDP and Villa to protect the constitution and sanctity of the National Assembly. For example, the All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP) then had 29 members in the House and the Congress for Progressives Congress (CPC) had 34. Then the Action Congress of Nigeria (CAN), led by my very good friend, Speaker Gbajabiamila, had 68 minus two; therefore, almost 66 plus 34 and 29; then some block from the PDP almost 100 plus.

Like the nPDP of 2015 or something like that?

You can call it that way. All of us came together and produced the leadership of Aminu Waziri Tambuwal. We could not have the votes of the ACN without the endorsement of Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu. He supported us solidly and the democratic emergence of Aminu Waziri, just to give us hope as his sons and daughters in the House of Representatives.

What is the difference between then and now? 

I think there is no much difference. The only difference is that the PDP and Villa at that very material time intended to impose the leadership of the House of Representatives through the backdoor through undemocratic process, but this time around (10th Assembly), it came with a surprise.

There was a situation where a ruling party (APC) sent a letter to the National Assembly or the two chambers, zoning positions, and after zoning, micro-zoning the positions to particular states and pick names.  This is the first in the history of our democracy.

Are you saying on record that this is the first time?

This is the first time. I challenge everybody to come up with another fact.

Are you talking of micro-zoning because I know that political parties have been doing zoning? 

Micro-zoning is the problem. They could ask a zone to produce a candidate but it is the business of the zone to produce whosoever they like. But this time around, they picked the senators or House of Reps members that wanted to make leaders.

What is wrong with that?

It is dangerous to our democratic journey. Can’t you allow the North West or any other zone to produce the people they want? Can’t you engage the other contestants and the relevant stakeholders from the zone and out of the zone?

It is a direct business of 109 senators and 360 House of Reps members; and in every given society and organisation there are some people who matter in the decision making process.

Are you accusing the ruling APC of doing this? 

The APC and some sycophants around Asiwaju sent the purported letter.

What are your expectations from the president? 

I have confidence in him, that at least he will allow democracy and the rule of law; he will allow us to exercise our constitutional rights.

How sure are you that your people are not in tune with the president’s selection of Akpabio and Tajudeen?

It is very clear. How many polling units do I have? I visited almost all the political wards in my zone – 171; it is the largest, 16 local governments. I held various consultations with different interest groups in Kano south senatorial from May 2022 to February. I am always engaging my people.

As a member of the NNPP, why did you take Abdulaziz Yari, who is of the APC, to the secretariat of your party? 

It is a presidential system of government, not parliamentary, where a party has an overbearing influence on its members. It is the business of the presidential system of government like ours.

When we enter the chamber of the National Assembly, it is the business of members, not political parties; therefore, all of us, 109, according to the 1999 constitution, are equal and everybody can contest the election. Now you can see the wisdom of visiting political parties.

Secondly, we want to run an inclusive government. One of the characteristics of a good government is inclusiveness; therefore, we need to see the ideology of the NNPP, Social Democratic Party (SDP), PDP, APC, Labour Party and others.

And so you are supporting Sen Yari, for instance, not because he is of the APC. 

We are supporting Yari not because he is from Zamfara, a Muslim, APC or because he is Hausa, we are supporting him with the anticipation that he would lead us well.

Since you don’t want Akpabio but somebody from the North West, why can’t you ask Senator Barau (who is to serve as deputy Senate president to Akpabio) to come to your fold so that you can push together for him to become Senate president? 

You cannot push in this kind of contest. You will need to look for so many reasons. Yari agreed and accepted to run; it is like what will happen on 13th. One of us will stand up and nominate Yari or any other senator, then somebody will second the nomination, and if he accepts, he becomes a candidate. Therefore, you cannot support somebody who is not ready to accept the nomination. Maybe some of us see reason in Yari, therefore we proposed and he accepted our proposal.

Are you the one going to nominate him?

Either I or any member of the Senate can nominate him.

Would you nominate Yari if you have your way?

If I have my way and I know that so many members are ready to nominate him and so many are ready to second the nomination and he will accept it, I will do that.

How far is the collaboration between Yari and Senator Orji Uzor Kalu, Senator Osita Izunaso, among others? 

All of us are working together and we will produce one candidate and his deputy.

But who do you think will likely get this ticket? 

It is Yari.

Why? 

It is because of the number of people on his side.

Will it be fair for him to become the Senate president at the detriment of the South-South and South East? 

I don’t know what you are talking about. Are we not running a constitutional democracy? We all derive our powers and privileges from the constitution. We need to go beyond this myopic thinking. In the history of the National Assembly, from 1999 till today, there has not been any time when religion determined our action or inaction. We need to go beyond that.

I earlier mentioned numerical strength and interests, but you brought the issue of constitutional democracy. Now let’s talk about fairness and the dilemma this configuration will pose to the polity in the event that Yari gets it. This means that you will have the president, vice president and the Senate president as Muslims. As a legislator, would you have the confidence to look at people from the other side of the divide and say it is a fair contest? 

When we enter the chamber of the National Assembly, it will be with the constitution. When the president and his vice took their oath of office last week, it was with the constitution, not the Quran or Bible.

Both Islam and Christianity talk about fairness. 

We have three independent organs of government—the executive, legislature and judiciary.

When you go for the executive you will do zoning for the smooth running of that particular organ; that is the reason the president came from Lagos and his deputy from Borno. His chief of staff is from Lagos while the Secretary to the Government of the Federation is from the North Central.

What I am saying is that are we ready to do zoning and we are picking the Senate president from North West. Currently, up to June 13, Femi is the Speaker of the House of Representatives. He is from Lagos and the former vice president is from Lagos; so where is zoning? Is it now they will bring zoning?

Also, some people are trying to have Betara as Speaker while Vice President Kashim Shettima is also from Borno; what is your take? 

Kashim Shettima is from the executive while Betara is from the legislature.

Does it mean that no lesson was learnt from the past? 

Let me cite another example for you: Where is the Chief Justice of the Federation from?

He is from the South West.

So, why couldn’t you stop Asiwaju from becoming president because the Chief Justice of the Federation is from Oyo, which is close to Lagos? 

I am just talking about fairness and the need to carry all Nigerians along.

When you are talking of balance of power, do you think it is justice to exclude the entire 19 northern states from having a head of one arm of government?

So some of you are making these moves simply because you think the North has been shortchanged in the present equation; is that correct? 

No.

Are you just talking about competence? 

We are talking about the future of the National Assembly and legislation. This is my agenda, maybe somebody has his own.

Quite a number of people are saying that by the time you have the Senate president from the South South, already, the chief justice and the president are from the South West, it is as good as saying you have annihilated the North; do you think so?

I am a legislator; therefore, all I know is the constitution. The intent of separation of power is to have check and balance; this is the only relationship between the two arms when it comes to governance.

In the 6th and 7th National Assembly, David Mark was the Senate president and his deputy was also a Christian. We had Patricia Eteh as Speaker, a Christian too and nobody complained. We did not remove her because she was a Christian but there was an internal problem. Also, former President Jonathan, David Mark and Ike Ekweremadu, the deputy Senate president are Christians. The then Senate leader, Ndoma Egba too is a Christian.

Nobody complained because we believed they could deliver; and they did their best. There was no time we complained of David Mark because he is Christian, he presided.

So you think the complaint now is misplaced?

It is misplaced. Why are you talking about Christianity and Islam? There is a precedence, it happened before but nobody complained at all.

Members of the Akpabio camp are claiming that they have 65 senators while your people are claiming that you have 67, who has the majority?

Let us meet at the chamber of the National Assembly on the 13th.

Can you give us a hint on the number?

I will not give you any hint.

What is your advice to President Tinubu? 

What I will say is that some people are using his name to cause confusion, which will be dangerous to our democracy. They intend to use undemocratic means for their selfish interests, which will be resisted, even by our constituencies. We heard that they are planning to arrest, detain, block and do everything possible on that very day to have their way.

Are you preparing for that?

We are preparing for it.

How would you have access to the Three Arms Zone if some forces truly want to prevent you?

It is democracy and there are so many ways of showing your dissatisfaction. I assure you that those urging the executive to use force in the election or selection of National Assembly presiding offices are the enemies Asiwaju.

He should not listen to them; this is how they did it to Jonathan.

Are you saying it is like history is about to repeat itself?

This is why I am advising the executive to be careful.

Not to have a repeat of 2011?

You see, they want to use federal might to stop us from accessing the National Assembly to exercise our constitutional right, but they can’t. If you block, teargas or arrest us, it means they are going against the constitution and it is as good as dissolving the National Assembly midway.

We are planning to send letters to all embassies, inviting them to watch what is going on from now to the inauguration day. I granted a press conference and spoke to the international community.